(April 29, 2009) There is an evangelical organization called Sojourners which was founded in 1971 whose mission statement reads as follows: “Our mission is to articulate the biblical call to social justice, inspiring hope and building a movement to transform individuals, communities, the church, and the world.” Their website’s “About Us” history section states the following: “Sojourners are Christians who follow Jesus, but who also sojourn with others in different faith traditions and all those who are on a spiritual journey. We are evangelicals, Catholics, Pentecostals and Protestants; progressives and conservatives; blacks, whites, Latinos, and Asians; women and men; young and old. We reach into traditional churches but also out to those who can’t fit into them. Together we seek to discover the intersection of faith, politics, and culture. We invite you to join, to connect, and to act.”
Sojourners takes a position on the liberal or progressive side of politics. The leaders of Sojourners along with some other nationally prominent pastors declare they have taken on the mantle of the “New Evangelical” movement which focuses on: “the fundamental moral and biblical issues of global poverty and commitments like the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs), human trafficking, religious liberty, genocide in Darfur, and foreign policy issues like torture and even nuclear weapons. The NAE’s critically important statement, ‘For the Health of the Nation’, bears powerful witness to the wider agenda that is the shape of the new evangelical movement in America, and certainly around the world—especially for the next generation.” (Rich Cizik, Pioneer for New Evangelicals, Resigns from NAE) One of their mantras leading up to the American Presidential election in 2008 was that there are more issues than just abortion and gay marriage. This is a true statement as far as it goes. However, the legalized slaughter of more than 40 million unborn babies should have a prominent place in any discussion of the Christian faith’s influence on the American political system (since it was the government’s court system which declared abortion to be legal). As far as the poverty issue the New Evangelical movement wants to excessively rely on the government to help solve this issue. That is okay from a secular point of view but not a biblical one. Nowhere did Jesus tell His followers to look to the government to meet their earthly needs. To the contrary He declared, “Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.” (Matthew 6:31-34) He told His followers they were to help the poor, “For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but Me ye have not always.” Christianity has been at the forefront of this issue throughout history by establishing Christian hospitals, missions, and colleges.
The problem I’ve come across in reading the writings of Sojourner leaders and followers is that they seem to downplay the significance of God’s revealed word found in the Holy Bible. In a response to one of the blog articles written on the Sojourners’ website concerning the gay rights issue a poster wrote the following comment: “When you take away the compromised translations and hand-me-down interpretations, the Bible has nothing to say against loving, monogamous, life-long gay relationships.” (Evangelicals Need to Love Gay People) A blogger on a different website discussed the nature of the “emergent church” (which could apply to Sojourners as well) “when the church is founded upon human discontent, desire to improve what God has designed or any other basis than upon Jesus Christ and His Word, it is destined for corruption and failure. The emergent church, in a very few years, has already moved onto the slippery slope and every passing day and every new church plant magnifies that error.” (What’s wrong with the Emergent Church?)
The purpose of my article deals with another position that Sojourners and the other prominent new evangelical leaders take on the modern nation of Israel. Concerning the issue of Israel and Christians Jim Wallis, a leader of Sojourners, wrote in 2007, “The completely one-sided support for Israel from some conservative evangelicals rests on two things: one, a very dubious interpretation (I’m being generous here) of biblical prophecy and eschatology (the theology of the “end times”) in which the modern state of Israel is still equated with the Old Testament notion of “God’s chosen people;” and two, a complete denial of the very existence of Palestinian Christians…One of the most hopeful signs, however, was a recent letter to President Bush by evangelical leaders who clearly dissented from the militant perspective of their Christian Zionist brothers. It said: ‘We also write to correct a serious misperception among some people, including some U.S. policymakers, that all American evangelicals are opposed to a two-state solution and creation of a new Palestinian state that includes the vast majority of the West Bank. Nothing could be further from the truth. We, who sign this letter, represent large numbers of evangelicals throughout the U.S. who support justice for both Israelis and Palestinians.’” Mr. Wallis seems to make the point I described in the previous paragraph about downplaying the significance of the Bible when he used the phrase “a very dubious interpretation (I’m being generous here) of biblical prophecy and eschatology”. What follows is an exchange of comments on the Sojourners’ blog between myself and two other posters who disagreed with me concerning Israel and their right to the land of Israel. I quote prophetic scriptures throughout my comments that are unmistakable in saying that God promised the physical land of Israel to the Jews forever yet Mr. Wallis would say that my “interpretation” is very dubious. When you read the quoted scriptures you will see that no interpretation is needed. One only needs to read the plainly written word of God to understand His plan for Israel.
My response and follow-ups were written concerning an article Brian McLaren wrote on the Sojourner’s website titled: “Four Points Toward Peace in the Middle East” In this article he wrote:
“The need to confront the terrible, deadly, distorted, yet popular theologies associated with Christian Zionism and deterministic dispensationalism. These systems of belief — so common among my fellow evangelical Christians — too often lead people to act as if Jewish people have God-given rights but Palestinians do not. They use a discredited hermeneutic (way of interpreting the Bible) to imply that God shows favoritism — that God is concerned for justice for one group of people and not for others. They create bigotry and prejudice against Muslims in general … and in particular against Palestinians, many of whom are Muslim but many of whom are Christian too. These doctrinal formulations often use a bogus end-of-the-world scenario to create a kind of death-wish for World War III, which — unless it is confronted more robustly by the rest of us — could too easily create a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you hold to a deterministic-dispensationalist or Zionist theology, I sincerely hope you will rethink your view. I grew up with these views as well, and have become thoroughly convinced that they are not only biblically unfaithful but also, in too many cases, morally and ethically harmful.”
The criticism of Christian Zionism comes not only from the progressive New Evangelicalism but is also shared by Jews who reject Jesus as the Messiah. They believe that Christians only want the Jews back in the land of Israel in order to fulfill End-Times prophecies. Many End-Times prophecies do indeed revolve around Israel, the third Jewish Temple, and the Jewish people. However, this is not why I support the Jews’ right to the land of Israel. I support their right to the land because God gave it to them for an everlasting possession.
One respondent who disagreed with my position persistently challenged me on this issue. Below you will find my responses to each of his challenges. Because I am unsure of copyright laws concerning comments on blogs (After searching the web I found there is no consensus as to what material is copyrighted and who the owner of that material is) I will paraphrase the objections he raised but my responses will be written in their entirety. Comments I make for this article will be purple, the words of God that I quote will be in red, the challenger’s words will be in blue, and my original posts and responses will be in black. I will number the posts to keep them organized.
1 This was my initial post in response to his article:
{my response to Mr. McLaren} “As long as Hezbollah exists, it will never recognise Israel.” – leader of Lebanon’s Islamist Hezbollah movement, Hassan Nasrallah March 14, 2009. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7943357.stm)
As long as there are Muslim extremists who hate Israel there will never be peace in that land.
I do believe and accept the biblical prophecies that foretell of a horrible time coming upon the earth. However, that is not why I support the Jews’ right to the land of Israel. I support their right because of what God says in His word:
“And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, ‘I am the Almighty God; walk before Me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.” And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, “As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an EVERLASTING covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an EVERLASTING possession; and I will be their God.’” (Genesis 17:1-8)
“And God said to Abraham ‘Sarah, your wife, will bear you a son and you shall call his name Isaac and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant and with his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful and will make him a great nation. But My covenant will I establish with Isaac.’” (Genesis 17:19-21)
“And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran. And he came upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep. And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, ‘I am the LORD God of Abraham your father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon you lie, to you will I give it, and to your seed; And your seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and you shall spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in you and in your seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.’” (Genesis 28:10-14)
You say that God is no respecter of persons and right you are when it comes to anyone being able to receive salvation through Jesus Christ. However God called the Jews His “chosen people”: “For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto Himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.” (Deuteronomy 7:6)
Because the Jews as a people rejected Jesus as their Messiah does not void the “EVERLASTING covenant” that God made with them concerning the physical land of Israel:
“For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins. Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:25-29)
In the prophetic book of Amos God promised to bring the Jews back to their land and they would never be taken away from it again:
“And I will bring again the captivity of My people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.” (Amos 9:14-15)
Was God wrong when He commanded the Jews to conquer the land of Canaan/Israel and defeat the inhabitants that had occupied that land for hundreds of years? How do you not know that the current situation is not the beginning of the fulfillment of God’s word to bring the Jews back to the land nevermore to be uprooted from it. For 1800 years the Jews had no nation of their own. They should have assimilated and disappeared into every culture where they were dispersed. Yet they maintained their Jewish identity. Several places in the Old Testament God makes it clear that He will decide when the Jews will live in the land and when He will remove them as a form of judgment. Do you think after 1800 years God no longer cares what happens to His chosen people? The Bible declares, “But the land, whither ye go to possess it, is a land of hills and valleys, and drinketh water of the rain of heaven: A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year.” (Deuteronomy 11:11-12)
I do not need to “rethink” my views on this issue. I’ll take God’s word over the word of humans who try to reinterpret His word in order to fit the modern world’s view of the way things should be. Mr. McLaren, is it possible that you need to “re-rethink” your views? {end my response to Mr. McLaren}
2 This first comment on my initial post was made by a different responder than all the other responses that follow. This was my response to his post:
{respondent 1} Genesis 17 declared that Abraham would be the father of many nations and this was the covenant with Israel and that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah who would fulfill this promise. {end respondent}
{my response} You seem to be conflating two promises God made to Abraham:
“And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.” (Genesis 12:2-3) Jesus fulfilled this promise when He brought salvation to all who would receive Him.
“And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.” (Genesis 17:7-8) This second passage refers to the physical land of Israel and that He promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob’s descendants, the Jews. {end my response}
{respondent 1} His next point was there weren’t many people who wanted to see Israel disappear with except for Hamas and Hezbollah. {end respondent}
{my response} It doesn’t take a whole lot of extremists to keep disrupting the peace in Israel. As long as they exist they cannot allow Israel to live on land that they believe Allah gave to them. {end my response}
{respondent 1} He asked what are the boundaries of Israel? {end respondent}
{my response} God told the Jews that Israel’s boundaries would be: “In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates.” (Genesis 15:18) The Israelites never conquered all the land that God said was theirs. What the boundaries are under the current situation I cannot say. He simply said that one day He would return the Jews to Israel never to be uprooted from it again. {end my response}
{respondent 1} He then asked what should happen to the non-Jews living there? {end respondent}
{my response} They can continue to live there. The ones who left did so at the urging of the Arab governments who vowed to drive the Jews into the sea in 1948. {end my response}
{respondent 1} He then asked what should happen to the Christians who lived in Israel? {end respondent}
{my response} They too should continue to live in the land. {end my response}
{respondent 1} What about Galatians 3:28 which declared all believers to part of Abraham’s seed? {end respondent}
{my response} Paul wrote: “And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.” (Romans 4:11-18)
Paul declares that it is faith that saved Abraham. He states, “to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the FAITH of Abraham.” This means that everyone, whether Jew or Gentile, who believes God’s word and receives Jesus as the Messiah is a seed or descendant of Abraham. How can this be since Gentiles are not physically descended from Abraham? Paul is clearly speaking of Christians as a “spiritual” descendant of Abraham. Likewise, when Paul refers to Christians as the “Israel of God” in Galatians 6:15-16, he is saying that Christians, as a body of believers, are the “spiritual” Israel of God.
Paul himself made a distinction between Christians (the spiritual descendants of Abraham) and the Jews (the physical descendants of Abraham):
“I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew…What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded…(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.” (Romans 11:1-2,8-32)
Paul says here that one day in the future “all Israel” will be saved. Israel cannot refer to Christians since Christians are already saved (I’m not talking about everyone who calls themselves a Christian).
Christians don’t need the land of Israel (crusades notwithstanding) so therefore the promise God made in Amos to return the Jews to the land forever does not refer to the spiritual seed but to the physical seed of Abraham. At the second coming of Christ they will become His spiritual seed also.
[ For a former Islamic terrorist's point of view on the land of Israel you can visit Walid Shoebat's website at www.shoebat.com ] {end my response}
3 This second response to my initial post was made by a different responder. The rest of my posts from here on are in response to his posts:
{respondent 2} He made a mocking comment about God’s word as it applies to the One World Government of the United Nations. {end respondent}
{respondent 2} He made another derisive comment saying Of course God could use the UN and that I should go there and fill them in on what God’s will was. {end respondent}
{my response} “Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.” (Luke 16:29) The Bible is the bestselling book of all time. There are plenty of them around. The members of the United Nations can get them and read for themselves what God’s will is. {end my response}
{respondent 2} He asked what the UN’s will for Palestine was today? {end respondent}
{my response} I don’t know what the UN’s will for Palestine is. I know what God’s will is for the land of Israel. You can read my previous posts to find out. {end my response}
{respondent 2} Lastly he asked what happens to the Jews in the end. Are they there for Christians to see the signs of the End-Times? He stated that it was after all about Christians who were intent on seeing the destruction that is to occur in the last days. {end respondent}
{my response} No, He has them there to create the utopia He desired for humans to have all along. But before that happens He will judge the world for its wicked rebellion against His word. He did this once before with the flood. Do you believe that God is a righteous judge who will send those who have rejected His Son to hell? {end my response}
4 This was his next response to my making a point about the judgmental side of God’s nature:
{respondent 2} He responded to my question about God sending someone to hell. He said yes. Then he asked if I believe God is loving and doesn’t take pleasure in the death of the wicked, that His goodness leads persons to repentance, and that God has the power to destroy hell? {end respondent}
{my response} Yes but His word says that hell is not temporary but calls it everlasting fire: “Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into EVERELASTING fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.” (Matthew 18:8-9) {end my response}
{respondent 2} He then asked if I believe that Jesus was the second Adam and that God is no longer obsessing over what mountain His people worship Him on? {end respondent}
{my response} Yes until the “fulness of the Gentiles be come in”. (Romans 11:25) After that happens though God says: “And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” (Isaiah 2:2-4)
You kept asking me “Do you believe” and I answered yes to those questions. Why? Because it is in God’s word just like the prophecy in Amos that says that one day He will return the Jews to the land of Israel. {end my response}
5 He now tells me the mistake I am making:
{respondent 2} He told me I was not believing God’s word but a systematic series of beliefs (meaning dispensationalism) based on chronology, geography, and soothsaying. He said this type of thinking doesn’t lead to peacemaking and reconciliation. He stated when he was a young believer he believed in Zionist Rapture theology but now believes in God’s love of justice and peace for all rather that the self-congratulatory correctness of doctrine. He said that raising a family can temper a person’s confidence in having all the answers. {end respondent}
{my response} I have quoted scripture after scripture that shows God promised the land of Israel to the Jews forever. I have quoted scripture that shows God promised to one day bring the Jews back to the land of Israel forever. This has nothing to do with some systematic doctrine. It is the plain reading of God’s word.
The agnostic American author Mark Twain wrote in 1898 an article about the Jews:
“If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly be heard of; but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world’s list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and obtuse learning are also way out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in this world in all the ages, and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself and be excused for it. The Egyptians, the Babylonians, and the Persians rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, and faded to dream stuff and passed away. The Greeks and the Romans followed and made a vast noise and they are gone. Other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time. But it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all. Beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew. All other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?”
As I said in an earlier post the Jews were dispersed 1800 years ago. They were persecuted and killed everywhere they went. No country, including America, would take them at the beginning of the Holocaust. They should have assimilated and disappeared as a people in all the various cultures they were dispersed to yet they maintained their identity for 18 centuries. Yet, even after 6 million of them died during the Holocaust they were able to have a homeland. A homeland not located just anywhere in the world but in their biblical homeland of Israel.
The answer to Mark Twain’s question as to why the Jews are still around is simple. God! God says in His word that He has a plan for Israel and that one day all Israel will be saved. The scriptures could not be more clear on this issue.
I think it is obvious by now that I am very passionate about the Jews and the land of Israel. I even had the privilege to go there in 1986. I too would love to see everyone living in peace there, both Jew and Arab. It will happen one day according to God’s word. {end my response}
6 In this next post he implies that I only came to my belief that the land belongs to Israel because I had read other dispensationalist’s writings. He also declares that Zionism is racism which would make me a racist if I’m a Zionist. What is ironic about this charge is that the next day the United Nations held their anti-racism conference in Geneva Switzerland. The Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gave a speech there in which he too equated Zionism with racism according to CNN (Envoys walk out of U.N. anti-racism conference)
{respondent 2} He challenged me in response to my stating earlier that it is the plain reading of God’s word and not dispensationalism that led me to my belief that Israel belongs to the Jews. He questioned that I could come to this conclusion by only reading the Bible and made a comment that if so then Darby has nothing on me. {end respondent}
{my response} Just because theologians have placed a label on a series of beliefs based on scriptures does not negate the truth of those scriptures. God said clearly that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews. Therefore the land belongs to the Jews. {end my response}
{respondent 2} He now responds to my comment about my saying I was very passionate about the Jews and Israel and that I had visited there in 1986. He states that Zionism is racism and that I am a Zionist which to him meant racist {end respondent}
{my response} If by Zionist you mean that I believe that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews then yes I am a Zionist. Since God declared this to be so I guess He is a Zionist also. Does this make Him a racist too? {end my response}
{respondent 2} He said the quoting of scripture didn’t impress him and that the Bible could be used to justify slavery.
{my response} What do YOU think those passages mean in Genesis where God said that the land of Israel would be theirs for an everlasting possession? {end my response}
{respondent 2} He then said my reasoning could be applied to any racist group and would not lead to peacemaking. My only solution was death or conversion of the Arabs. Some peace! He then asked if I can believe for the salvation of all Israel why can’t I believe for the salvation of all peoples? He quoted John 3:16 {end respondent}
{my response} Why does my support of the Jews’ right to the land of Israel mean that I don’t believe in the salvation for all peoples? Every person whether Jew or Gentile can receive salvation through Jesus Christ: “But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:12-13)
I mentioned in an earlier post a former terrorist who did receive Jesus Christ as his Savior. He too thinks the land of Israel belongs to the Jews. Why would he believe that? Is he a victim of dispensationalism or has he read the Bible for himself? His website states the following: “In 1993, Walid studied the Tanach (Jewish Bible) in a challenge to convert his wife to Islam. Six months later, after intense study, Walid realized that everything he had been taught about Jews was a lie. Convinced he was on the side of evil, he became an advocate for his former enemy.”
(http://www.shoebat.com/bio.php?PHPSESSID=a31d0d) {end my response}
7 In this next post he asked about my Genesis question and accuses me of evading:
{respondent 2} He asked me if my question about his understanding of the verses in Genesis referred to God promising the land to Abraham’s descendants? He then said I was evading his earlier point. {end respondent}
{my response} This whole discussion can be boiled down to one simple question. Does God say in His word the land of Israel belongs to the Jews? {end my response}
8 While this exchange was going on he made another post which I did not respond to:
{respondent 2} He said that although he had been sharp with me there was no personal acrimony involved. He said that he admired my love of God’s word and that hopefully it would lead both of us into a deeper understanding of who He is. He finished up with “shalom, my brother”. {end respondent}
9 At this time he started a separate line of questioning:
{respondent 2} He asked if I thought modern Israel should treat the Palestinians as ancient Israel treated the Canaanites? He said that after all we wanted to be biblical. He asked a question about Jewish exceptionalism and the false prophets of Jeremiah’s time. {end respondent}
{my response} It only matters what God thinks when it comes to fulfilling His word. Do you think God was wrong to command the Jews to invade the land of Canaan and conquer the inhabitants who had lived there for hundreds of years? {end my response}
10 He now questions my reasoning on the importance of God’s word:
{respondent 2} He said if only God’s word matters then why do I voice my opinion? He also said I was dodging his question. {end respondent}
{my response} I think you have seen that I quote God’s word extensively in my posts. That is because it is His word that matters. You seem to be adverse to answering the question I posed so I will try again. Do you think God was wrong to command the Jews to invade the land of Canaan and conquer the inhabitants who had lived there for hundreds of years? {end my response}
11 He now answers my Canaanite question and then wants to know where modern Israel’s occupation of Palestine is God’s command:
{respondent 2} No. He asks me where God commanded the Jews to occupy modern-day Palestine and what revelation I have to say that Israel is to play that role today? {end respondent}
12 Before I had a chance to answer his question (which I did almost immediately) he posted the following:
{respondent 2} He said now that he had answered my Canaanite question he expected me to answer his and not hide behind the mysterious God with a false humility not pretending to know the specifics of God’s will. {end respondent}
13 Here was the answer I was typing when he warned me not to avoid his question:
{my response} The prophet Daniel declares that it is God who sets up kings and thereby countries for them to rule over: “Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are His: And He changeth the times and the seasons: He removeth kings, and setteth up kings: He giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: He revealeth the deep and secret things: He knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with Him.” (Daniel 2:20-22) Thus, it was God’s will for the modern state of Israel to be created.
In the Old Testament God declared that it is His decision when the Jews live in the promised land and when they don’t. He tells Moses to warn the Israelites that if they obey Him they will be blessed in the land of Israel. However, if they disobey Him, He will remove them from the land:
“And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field…And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone. And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind.” (Deuteronomy 28:1-3,63-65)
Notice in this passage that it is the LORD who scatters the Jews from the land.
Later in Israel’s history, God removed the Jews from the land for their disobedience. He used the Babylonian Empire to perform His judgment.
However, He tells them that He will return them to the land after seventy years:
“Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon…For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place. For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.” (Jeremiah 29:4,10-11)
Again God states that He is the one who caused the Jews to be carried away to Babylon and He will be the one to cause them to return to Israel.
In the book of the prophet Amos God promised to bring the Jews back to the land forever:
“And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.” (Amos 9:14-15)
God declares that He is always watching Israel:
“But the land, whither ye go to possess it, is a land of hills and valleys, and drinketh water of the rain of heaven: A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year.” (Deuteronomy 11:11-12)
God emphasizes throughout His word that He is always interested in what is going on in the land of Israel and that He determines when the Jews live in the land. Thus the Jews couldn’t have returned to the land of Israel unless it was God’s will for them to do so.
There is coming a time when the focus of salvation on Gentiles is coming to an end as the apostle Paul wrote: “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.” (Romans 11:25-27)
You said that God was not wrong in using the Israelites to punish the Canaanites and take their land. If He did it then could He not do it now? For you to be consistent you would have to agree that if God is doing this now then it wouldn’t be wrong this time either. Since God’s word makes it clear that He determines when the Jews live on the land then modern Israel is the fulfillment of His will. {end my response}
14 Now we return to the other discussion concerning my “boiled down” question Does the Bible say that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews:
{respondent 2} He turns the question around about who the decendants of Abraham are? He references Galatians 3:28 and asks if it isn’t possible that the land belongs to faithful Christians, Jews, and Muslims who desire to please Him by faith? {end respondent}
{my response} I addressed this issue in my earlier response to [the first respondents name]. I will repost it here.
Paul wrote: “And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.” (Romans 4:11-18)
Paul declares that it is faith that saved Abraham. He states, “to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the FAITH of Abraham.” This means that everyone, whether Jew or Gentile, who believes God’s word and receives Jesus as the Messiah is a seed or descendant of Abraham. How can this be since Gentiles are not physically descended from Abraham? Paul is clearly speaking of Christians as a “spiritual” descendant of Abraham. Likewise, when Paul refers to Christians as the “Israel of God” in Galatians 6:15-16, he is saying that Christians, as a body of believers, are the “spiritual” Israel of God.
Paul himself made a distinction between Christians (the spiritual descendants of Abraham) and the Jews (the physical descendants of Abraham):
“I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew…What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded…(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.” (Romans 11:1-2,8-32)
Paul says here that one day in the future “all Israel” will be saved. Israel cannot refer to Christians since Christians are already saved (I’m not talking about everyone who calls themselves a Christian).
Christians don’t need the land of Israel (crusades notwithstanding) so therefore the promise God made in Amos to return the Jews to the land forever does not refer to the spiritual seed but to the physical seed of Abraham. At the second coming of Christ they will become His spiritual seed also. {end my response}
{respondent 2} He also asked why I believed God will send those who reject Jesus to hell while at the same time rewarding the Jews who rejected Jesus with the land of Israel? {end respondent}
{my response} As stated above, Paul declares, “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.”
Even though the Jews currently reject Jesus as their Messiah they are still beloved by God. Even though they are in rebellion against God He still has a covenant with them to take away their sins. His covenant concerning the land was an “everlasting covenant” and as Paul writes the gifts and calling of God are without repentance or are irrevocable. The word everlasting distinguishes it from other covenants that are not everlasting.
He will send both Jew and Gentile to hell if they reject His Son Jesus Christ. However, He will give the land of Israel to the Jews because it His plan to do so. {end my response}
15 He now responds to my answer concerning the difference between spiritual Israel and Christians and physical Israel and Jews:
{respondent 2} He said that if I could live with the contradictions of my beliefs then more power to me. He said that I answered his questions by using selected Scripture quotations and just say it’s God’s plan so we need to just submit like in Islam. He said that he agreed that God is no respecter of persons and that there other solutions to the Middle East problem than my suggested imposition of peace by a Jesus who loves the Jews more than any other people. He said I will not persuade him to my fatalistic outlook because he is believes in the supremacy of Jesus’ words as espoused in the Gospels and which for all my love of God’s word I had not quoted once. {end respondent}
{my response} What you call fatalism I call reality. It does appear we are not persuading each other. {end my response}
{respondent 2} The supremacy of Jesus’ words as espoused in the Gospels and which for all my love of God’s word I had not quoted once. {end respondent}
{my response} Sorry but you are incorrect here. In my response to your “implying” that because I am a Zionist I am therefore a racist I said:
“Why does my support of the Jews’ right to the land of Israel mean that I don’t believe in the salvation for all peoples? Every person whether Jew or Gentile can receive salvation through Jesus Christ: “But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:12-13)” {end my response}
16 He then makes his final post:
{respondent 2} He said I was quoting John and not Jesus. {end respondent}
{my response} I’m sorry. I misunderstood what you said. I thought you meant that I hadn’t referenced the gospels. {end my response}
{respondent 2} He said regardless could I quote Jesus where he said anything close to the position that I and others like me who believe that God’s word says the land of Israel belonging to the Jews {end respondent}
{my response}I have already done so throughout my posts:
“‘I am the Almighty God; walk before Me, and be thou perfect. And I will make My covenant between Me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.” And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, ‘As for Me, behold, My covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an EVERLASTING covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an EVERLASTING possession; and I will be their God.’” (Genesis 17:1-8)
“And I will bring again the captivity of My people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.” (Amos 9:14-15)
As far as Jesus’ ministry on earth His primary focus was on revealing God’s love and God’s plan of redemption to the Jews. In doing so He was fulfilling the promise of Genesis 12 that all the families of the world would be blessed through Abraham. Jesus was born of Jewish heritage and through the Jews’ spreading His gospel the world became blessed. He said “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24) He told His disciples, “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 10:5-7) Jesus did help the Gentile woman and the Gentile centurion but His focus was on the Jews. Jesus said, “Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22) He also said He had sheep from a different fold. His plan was to use His Jewish disciples to carry the gospel to them. Paul confirms this when he declared, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek” (Romans 1:16) {end my last response}
End of the discussion
There were a few more posts by others after this last post which all supported the biblical idea that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews. I hope this exchange was instructive in illustrating how there is a segment in the modern Church which does not seem to place much emphasis on the plain reading of prophetic scriptures. In this last post he asked me if I believed in the supremacy of the words of Jesus Christ. I responded by quoting Old Testament verses. My purpose in doing this is to show that the supremacy of Jesus’ words is not limited to the gospels but to the entire word of God from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. Jesus said, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.” The New Testament makes it clear that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh (John ch.1). Therefore when God speaks in the Old Testament Jesus Christ is speaking. Even if a person wanted to make the distinction that God the Father was speaking in the Old Testament Jesus said that He always did His Father’s will, “I can of Mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and My judgment is just; because I seek not Mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent Me.” (John 5:30) and “Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father hath taught Me, I speak these things. And He that sent Me is with Me: the Father hath not left Me alone; for I do always those things that please Him. (John 8:28-29) Therefore, since it is God’s will that the Jews inhabit the land of Israel then it is Jesus’ will also. The Bible makes it clear that God is same being in both the Old and New Testaments: “For I am the LORD, I change not” (Malachi 3:6) and “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.” (Hebrews 13:8)
Earlier he had asked me how could God bless the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ with the land of Israel yet not the Palestinians who also had rejected Jesus Christ. The same question could be applied to the first conquest of Canaan by the Israelites. God told Abraham that He would send Abraham’s descendants into slavery because the Canaanites’ cup of abominations was not full. For all the time the Canaanites lived on the land they committed abominations before the LORD. Why didn’t he immediately give the land to the Jews? Because it wasn’t His plan to do so at that time. Today He gave the land of Israel to the Jews because it is His plan to do so.
At the beginning of this article I stated that the End-Times revolved around the Jews being back in the land of Israel. However, after reading this article you will see that I have made it clear that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews in spite of End-Times prophecy. It belongs to the Jews because God gave it to them in His promise to Abraham. I believe the poster who questioned my beliefs on this issue represents the views held by the New Evangelicalism leaders and those of Sojourners. As I said, they tend to downplay the Scriptures that don’t fit their modern worldview of the way things should be. I hope this article will help you in using discernment to ascertain the truth of God’s word: “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (II Timothy 2:15)
(November 1, 2009) I received the following article in an email newsletter that I subscribe to from a Jewish organization based in Jerusalem:
